[FC-discuss] ccLearn intern position at Creative Commons

[Fred Beneson]

On Oct 24, 2007, at 7:24 PM, Crosbie Fitch <crosbie at cyberspaceengineers.org 
 > wrote:

>> From: Fred Benenson
>> First, Creative Commons created and maintains both the CC-BY
>> and CC-BY-
>> SA licenses, which I assume you consider part of free culture.
>
> Licences are tools to permit/restore liberties suspended by copyright.
>
> It is possible to craft licences that restore permission to very  
> nearly all
> the liberties otherwise suspended by copyright.
>
> The GPL comes very close.
>
> CC-SA is the most restorative of all the CC licences.
>
> CC licences are widely recognised.
>
> They are as much a part of free culture as copyright is.
>
> Which is similar to saying keys are as much a part of liberty as  
> manacles
> are. Keys can be used to lock as well as unlock. They aren't  
> intrinsically
> liberating, but merely used to moderate restraint.
>
> So, no, CC and their licenses are not part of free culture - even if  
> one or
> two of their licenses have utility to producers of free culture.
>
>> Second, CC fosters and promotes these licenses and
>> exploration of the goals cental to free culture.
>
> I can agree that "CC fosters and promotes these licenses", but I see  
> very
> little exploration of the goals central to free culture - unless you  
> mean
> Lessig's book?
>
>> Just because the organization doesn't narrowly and singlemindedly
>> promote your own personal and particular definition of "free culture"
>> doesn't mean they don't have anything to do with it.
>
> Semantically true, but I think the question is "What DO they have to  
> do with
> it?"
>
>> Moreover, it
>> doesn't mean that people on this list won't be interested to hear
>> about opportunites regarding CC.
>
> Also semantically true. It also doesn't mean that people on this  
> list won't
> be interested to hear about opportunities in Burger King.

You are being dense here -- do you seriously believe that people on  
this list should be as interested in opportunities at burger king just  
as much as they should be interested in opportunities at CC?

Does anyone on this list agree?


>
>
>> Would you consider the FSF having something to do with free culture?
>
> Only in the specific field of software - software being culture.
>
>> Despite their publishing non-free licenses such as the GFDL w/
>> invariant sections?
>
> It is their mission of freedom in the class of works known as  
> software that
> has relevance, not the non-free licences they may produce.
>
> CC has no mission of freedom in any field. The closest it comes in  
> using the
> word 'freedom' is in the author's freedom of choice - as in the slave
> owner's freedom of choice.
>
>
>> And despite all of their licenses, just like all
>> of the CC licenses, depending on copyright?
>
> The GPL doesn't depend upon copyright, it neutralises it by  
> harnessing its
> force against itself.
>
> Ask Richard Stallman if given a choice between copyright abolition  
> (with no
> software patents) and the status quo with a copyright based GPL, which
> alternative he'd opt for.
>
>> Can you supply some other organizations that aren't "copyright
>> advocacy" organizations that would be of interest to this list?
>
> Free Culture.org (open to question)
> http://www.againstmonopoly.org
> http://www.eff.org (not 100% sure they're not copyright advocates)
> http://questioncopyright.org
> http://www.downhillbattle.org

Eff licenses their site under a non-commercial license, something you  
ostensibly feel is unfree.

Question copyright is ARR as far as I can tell and downhill battle is  
defunct and their domain no longer seems to be resolving.

My point is that it is absurd to demand such ideological purity across  
the board from organizations who are working in the favor of free  
culture.

Whether it is CC getting a band to release a track under by-nc-nd or  
the Eff releasing their site under nc (it used to be arr), you'll end  
up alienating everyone for the sake of preserving a freedom that won't  
actually account for anything.


F

>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at freeculture.org
> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss