[FC-discuss] Yale switching to Google Apps / Gmail

[Fred Benenson]

Incredible! Congratulations. Some of the most effective SFC activism  
ever!

F

On Feb 26, 2010, at 7:38 PM, Adi Kamdar <adikamdar at gmail.com> wrote:

> Update:
>
> Just got word that Yale has delayed their Gmail/Gapps program, and  
> the administration will open up to the community for arguments and  
> concerns. Our actions made them realize they have more to think  
> about than they originally realized. Students + (angry) CS  
> professors = effective combo!
>
> -Adi
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at berkeley.edu 
> > wrote:
> http://wiki.freeculture.org/FCX/Unconference/Google_eating_or_providing_University_services
>
> will add more later. i encourage other attendees to do so as well.
>
> > Hey Alex,
> >
> > Alex Kozak <akozak at berkeley.edu> writes:
> >
> >> I'd love to have a conversation about this at the conference...  
> would be
> >> interesting to hear everyone's perspective. I think this is a great
> >> debate
> >> to have.
> >>
> >
> > Unfortunately I missed the conference this year. Did any  
> conversation
> > about it happen?
> >
> >> John you know I agree with the ideals of free software, but I  
> think I
> >> have a
> >> more pragmatic view when it comes to Google. Does the increased  
> risk to
> >> "corporate interference" and  reduced autonomy outweigh the  
> potential
> >> benefits of these technologies? For a school without any  
> collaboration
> >> systems, and little capacity to deploy one, the Google option would
> >> clearly
> >> be a net win for education and the university's mission to  
> educate. And
> >> it
> >> would be a win for free culture in that the capabilities for
> >> collaboration
> >> and learning presented by the internet are being harnessed by the
> >> institutions who could most benefit from their use.
> >>
> >
> > I understand the appeal of this argument, but it accepts the  
> status quo
> > as a given, ignoring the leadership role that universities have
> > (imperfectly) had, and what they are capable of. The university  
> has the
> > choice to either be part of the demand for freedom or to instead  
> support
> > lack of freedom and expect someone else to take the leadership  
> role. I
> > sure am glad universities continued the growth of the Internet and
> > standardized email instead of going the direction of private AOL- 
> like
> > networks.
> >
> > As Asheesh points out, to require Google Services is to require  
> student
> > and faculty disclosure of their academic work and communications  
> to both
> > the government and a corporation. This does strike me as a much more
> > sinister kind of corporate interference than hanging sponsorship  
> banners
> > up in the student union or the like. It also means relying on code  
> that
> > no one at the university has ever seen, so it means simply  
> trusting a
> > corporation to do the right thing.
> >
> > I think your way of framing this also creates a much wider  
> technology
> > gap than there is. Google services obviously have features that add
> > appeal, but let's be honest about what the actual damage to the
> > university's mission from not making their use *mandatory* is, and  
> let's
> > also remember that the largest successful collaborative writing and
> > research project in history is run using exclusively free  
> software...
> >
> >> I definitely agree that other things being equal a floss solution  
> is
> >> preferable over Google. And think it's even inevitable that free
> >> software
> >> will compete with Google apps-like services. But in the meantime  
> should
> >> schools not be encouraging the use of new technology until the  
> floss
> >> solution is as optimal as Google?
> >>
> >
> > There's no "in the meantime" in the current way these decisions are
> > being made -- to adopt Google services is to actively undercut and  
> work
> > against the demand for free software solutions (which may or may  
> not be
> > services in the traditional sense). Universities are large and  
> slow. If
> > they change to Google now, they aren't going to want to change  
> again to
> > a free software system in 3 years, even if an awesome one does  
> exist.
> >
> > We also can't impose the "in the meantime" rationale we wish were  
> there
> > on the decision -- when the decision is made based on cost, that's  
> the
> > rationale -- not this desire you're expressing to benefit  
> collaborative
> > or free culture projects. Failing to oppose a decision made on a  
> poor
> > rationale simply because an alternate rationale could justify it  
> better
> > is a dangerous path to take. When a decision is at best pro-free- 
> culture
> > because of incidental side effects, that's a deceptive and often  
> harmful
> > kind of win.
> >
> > If universities were *actually* saying, "We're going to use Google
> > services now, because we need that functionality to support
> > collaboration, but we'll continue to support development of free
> > software alternatives with an eye toward re-acquiring our academic
> > independence in 2015," then this would be a much different  
> discussion.
> >
> > From what I've seen, that's not what they're saying. What they're  
> saying
> > is more akin to, "It's cheaper, and software is just part of the
> > infrastructure, like the air conditioning, and Google is popular."
> > That's not something we should be okay with.
> >
> > --
> > -John Sullivan
> > -http://wjsullivan.net
> > -GPG Key: AE8600B6
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Discuss mailing list
> > Discuss at freeculture.org
> > http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >
>
>
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