[FC-discuss] Yale switching to Google Apps / Gmail

Ben Moskowitz benrito at gmail.com
Fri Feb 26 20:06:56 EST 2010 

Great work!

On Feb 26, 2010, at 7:45 PM, Fred Benenson wrote:

> Incredible! Congratulations. Some of the most effective SFC activism  
> ever!
>
> F
>
> On Feb 26, 2010, at 7:38 PM, Adi Kamdar <adikamdar at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Update:
>>
>> Just got word that Yale has delayed their Gmail/Gapps program, and  
>> the administration will open up to the community for arguments and  
>> concerns. Our actions made them realize they have more to think  
>> about than they originally realized. Students + (angry) CS  
>> professors = effective combo!
>>
>> -Adi
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at berkeley.edu 
>> > wrote:
>> http://wiki.freeculture.org/FCX/Unconference/Google_eating_or_providing_University_services
>>
>> will add more later. i encourage other attendees to do so as well.
>>
>> > Hey Alex,
>> >
>> > Alex Kozak <akozak at berkeley.edu> writes:
>> >
>> >> I'd love to have a conversation about this at the conference...  
>> would be
>> >> interesting to hear everyone's perspective. I think this is a  
>> great
>> >> debate
>> >> to have.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Unfortunately I missed the conference this year. Did any  
>> conversation
>> > about it happen?
>> >
>> >> John you know I agree with the ideals of free software, but I  
>> think I
>> >> have a
>> >> more pragmatic view when it comes to Google. Does the increased  
>> risk to
>> >> "corporate interference" and  reduced autonomy outweigh the  
>> potential
>> >> benefits of these technologies? For a school without any  
>> collaboration
>> >> systems, and little capacity to deploy one, the Google option  
>> would
>> >> clearly
>> >> be a net win for education and the university's mission to  
>> educate. And
>> >> it
>> >> would be a win for free culture in that the capabilities for
>> >> collaboration
>> >> and learning presented by the internet are being harnessed by the
>> >> institutions who could most benefit from their use.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I understand the appeal of this argument, but it accepts the  
>> status quo
>> > as a given, ignoring the leadership role that universities have
>> > (imperfectly) had, and what they are capable of. The university  
>> has the
>> > choice to either be part of the demand for freedom or to instead  
>> support
>> > lack of freedom and expect someone else to take the leadership  
>> role. I
>> > sure am glad universities continued the growth of the Internet and
>> > standardized email instead of going the direction of private AOL- 
>> like
>> > networks.
>> >
>> > As Asheesh points out, to require Google Services is to require  
>> student
>> > and faculty disclosure of their academic work and communications  
>> to both
>> > the government and a corporation. This does strike me as a much  
>> more
>> > sinister kind of corporate interference than hanging sponsorship  
>> banners
>> > up in the student union or the like. It also means relying on  
>> code that
>> > no one at the university has ever seen, so it means simply  
>> trusting a
>> > corporation to do the right thing.
>> >
>> > I think your way of framing this also creates a much wider  
>> technology
>> > gap than there is. Google services obviously have features that add
>> > appeal, but let's be honest about what the actual damage to the
>> > university's mission from not making their use *mandatory* is,  
>> and let's
>> > also remember that the largest successful collaborative writing and
>> > research project in history is run using exclusively free  
>> software...
>> >
>> >> I definitely agree that other things being equal a floss  
>> solution is
>> >> preferable over Google. And think it's even inevitable that free
>> >> software
>> >> will compete with Google apps-like services. But in the meantime  
>> should
>> >> schools not be encouraging the use of new technology until the  
>> floss
>> >> solution is as optimal as Google?
>> >>
>> >
>> > There's no "in the meantime" in the current way these decisions are
>> > being made -- to adopt Google services is to actively undercut  
>> and work
>> > against the demand for free software solutions (which may or may  
>> not be
>> > services in the traditional sense). Universities are large and  
>> slow. If
>> > they change to Google now, they aren't going to want to change  
>> again to
>> > a free software system in 3 years, even if an awesome one does  
>> exist.
>> >
>> > We also can't impose the "in the meantime" rationale we wish were  
>> there
>> > on the decision -- when the decision is made based on cost,  
>> that's the
>> > rationale -- not this desire you're expressing to benefit  
>> collaborative
>> > or free culture projects. Failing to oppose a decision made on a  
>> poor
>> > rationale simply because an alternate rationale could justify it  
>> better
>> > is a dangerous path to take. When a decision is at best pro-free- 
>> culture
>> > because of incidental side effects, that's a deceptive and often  
>> harmful
>> > kind of win.
>> >
>> > If universities were *actually* saying, "We're going to use Google
>> > services now, because we need that functionality to support
>> > collaboration, but we'll continue to support development of free
>> > software alternatives with an eye toward re-acquiring our academic
>> > independence in 2015," then this would be a much different  
>> discussion.
>> >
>> > From what I've seen, that's not what they're saying. What they're  
>> saying
>> > is more akin to, "It's cheaper, and software is just part of the
>> > infrastructure, like the air conditioning, and Google is popular."
>> > That's not something we should be okay with.
>> >
>> > --
>> > -John Sullivan
>> > -http://wjsullivan.net
>> > -GPG Key: AE8600B6
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Discuss mailing list
>> > Discuss at freeculture.org
>> > http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> >
>>
>>
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