There is the matter, of course, of the fact that there aren't necessarily a large number of students interested in the topics at all schools. I remember there being a lot of discussion about how best to help small chapters, and IMHO that is to reach out to other members of the community who are not necessarily students.
<br><br>And while we're at it, how are we describing student? Or university? Harvard has an Extension school where people who aren't necessarily college-student-age can attend without having to be full-time students. And what about alumni? Alumni of those extension schools? People between college and grad school (as you were yourself until very recently)? I'm not pro-watering-down necessarily, but it seems to me that we're working with very vague definitions already.
<br><br>Christina<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 10/2/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Nelson Pavlosky</b> <<a href="mailto:nelson@freeculture.org">nelson@freeculture.org</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Why not start something called e.g. "the Boston Free Culture Coalition",<br>and have the local Students for Free Culture chapters join that, along<br>with every other interested person and group in Boston? That would be
<br>one way to get everyone involved and avoid artificially limiting<br>activity to the campus and students, while maintaining e.g. the Harvard<br>Free Culture chapter as a separate entity specifically focused on<br>organizing at Harvard.
<br><br>It may be easier for you to organize people off-campus who are already<br>interested in free culture than to educate and organize students on<br>campus who are clueless. However, it is precisely when it is hard that
<br>it is the most valuable. Reaching out to the off-campus community is<br>nice and is certainly worth doing, but the Harvard chapter of Students<br>for Free Culture should focus on getting Harvard students involved and
<br>engaged with these issues, because nobody else is going to do that job<br>for you. You are uniquely situated there to engage your peers, anyone<br>could organize the people off campus.... work your comparative advantage!
<br><br>I'm not saying that you shouldn't work with non-students, or that you<br>should only do on-campus events, but it seems to me like you should take<br>care of your own campus/students and make sure you're doing a good job
<br>there before you worry about other people and places.<br><br>Peace,<br>~Nelson~<br><br>Elizabeth Stark wrote:<br>> Again, to clarify, I'm not saying we should change our name yet again<br>> (once is probably enough.) I'm just saying we shouldn't discourage
<br>> groups like ours, who have reached out to people in our surrounding<br>> community successfully, not all of whom are students (but many of whom<br>> are still young.)<br>><br>> I'm not about to actively tell people they can't get involved and do
<br>> cool and interesting things with us merely because they're not<br>> enrolled at a university. In a community like ours, academia often<br>> mixes with many other fields, so it's also not always a bright line as
<br>> to what counts as a "campus" or "non-campus" action.<br>><br>> If other chapters want to do things differently, that's fine with me.<br>> We're not usually in the business of dictating what exactly each
<br>> chapter should do anyway. I just don't want to prohibit chapters from<br>> reaching out to the broader community or enabling other people to get<br>> involved, and it sounds like we're mostly in agreement here.
<br>><br>><br>> On 10/2/07, *Nelson Pavlosky* <<a href="mailto:nelson@freeculture.org">nelson@freeculture.org</a><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:nelson@freeculture.org">nelson@freeculture.org</a>>> wrote:
<br>><br>> I think that it makes sense to limit our focus to the schools of the<br>> world rather than trying to be all things to all people... isn't<br>> that a<br>> big enough task? I think that organizing off-campus should not be
<br>> within our mission, and that we should avoid mission creep, e.g.<br>> watering down the term "student" to mean "everyone in the<br>> world". If we<br>> find ourselves doing a lot of stuff that doesn't involve students and
<br>> youth, I think we should spin off a separate organization so that<br>> we can<br>> stay focused, and make sure that students remain in the driver's<br>> seat of<br>> this organization. Older people and people not involved with a
<br>> school/unversity in any way can certainly get involved and help<br>> out, so<br>> long as we maintain the clear mission of representing and organizing<br>> *students* for free culture.<br>
><br>> Let's face it, most organizations with totally open membership<br>> will end<br>> up being run by older people with more experience and<br>> connections... it<br>> doesn't make sense to kick out old experienced leaders for new
<br>> greenhorn<br>> students, *unless* you are trying to represent students and give<br>> them a<br>> voice. I think that it's important for us to give students a<br>> voice, to<br>
> show that they genuinely care about free culture issues by organizing<br>> them in a grassroots manner, by letting them speak for themselves,<br>> and<br>> no other organization in the field today offers that. If we water
<br>> ourselves down so that we just represent a vague group of people who<br>> support free culture, I think that will make our organization less<br>> valuable... what makes us different from e.g. iCommons at that
<br>> point? I<br>> think Fred is right, serious off-campus organizing can probably be<br>> done<br>> through iCommons or an iCommons "node". Or the EFF, or PK, or<br>> Copynight, or any of the numerous organizations in this field whom we
<br>> work with and support.<br>><br>> However, if members of our chapters disagree on this point, guess<br>> what?<br>> We're holding elections soon for the Board of Directors. Members
<br>> of our<br>> chapters can run for office, can make their position on whether we<br>> should remain *students* for free culture part of their platforms, and<br>> the chapters can vote them up or down on that issue, and the elected
<br>> Board can make motions in the desired direction. If the chapters want<br>> to change our name yet again to reflect a different mission, or change<br>> the purposes set forth in the bylaws, they can amend the bylaws
<br>> through<br>> the official amendment process, and officially change our name for the<br>> 3rd time. These issues will be decided through a democratic process<br>> that represents what our student activists want to do with this
<br>> organization.<br>><br>> And if that's not good enough, you always have the right to fork and<br>> start your own org.<br>><br>> Peace,<br>> ~Nelson Pavlosky~<br>> Co-founder, Students for Free Culture
<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> Elizabeth Stark wrote:<br>> > We've actually worked quite successfully in Boston *with*<br>> students and<br>> > in universities as well as *beyond* academia. While it probably
<br>> makes<br>> > sense at this point to be primarily university chapter-focused, I<br>> > don't see why others can't get involved. I'd like to define<br>> "student"
<br>> > as broadly as possible -- essentially, anyone with a willingness to<br>> > learn.<br>> ><br>> > -E<br>> ><br>> > On 10/2/07, Fred Benenson <<a href="mailto:fred.benenson@gmail.com">
fred.benenson@gmail.com</a><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:fred.benenson@gmail.com">fred.benenson@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>> ><br>> >> Yes, it's a shame that some people can't find value in campus
<br>> organizing as<br>> >> there's surely precedent.<br>> >><br>> >> Crosbie: why not consider an organization such as iCommons<br>> which has much<br>> >> broader goals and membership?
<br>> >><br>> >> F<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> On 10/2/07, Thomas (TJ) Olsen <<a href="mailto:tj@tjolsen.net">tj@tjolsen.net</a><br>> <mailto:
<a href="mailto:tj@tjolsen.net">tj@tjolsen.net</a>>> wrote:<br>> >><br>> >>> absolutely disagree--students and academia in this country and<br>> globally<br>> >>> have a long history of great activism and creative output
<br>> >>><br>> >>> tj<br>> >>> ----- Original Message -----<br>> >>> From: "Crosbie Fitch" < <a href="mailto:crosbie@cyberspaceengineers.org">crosbie@cyberspaceengineers.org
</a><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:crosbie@cyberspaceengineers.org">crosbie@cyberspaceengineers.org</a>>><br>> >>> To: "'Discussion of Free Culture in general and this organization<br>
> >>> inparticular'" <<a href="mailto:discuss@freeculture.org">discuss@freeculture.org</a><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:discuss@freeculture.org">discuss@freeculture.org</a>>><br>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 6:52 PM<br>> >>> Subject: Re: [FC-discuss] FreeCulture.org is now Students for<br>> Free Culture<br>> >>><br>> >>>
<br>> >>><br>> >>>> I would have thought "Artists for Free Culture" would have<br>> been better.<br>> >>>><br>> >>>> Or even "Free Citizens for Free Culture"
<br>> >>>><br>> >>>> I would suspect that the popular conception of a student is a<br>> passive<br>> >>>> receptacles for knowledge, only expected to start doing anything
<br>> >>>> significantly productive/creative until after they've ceased<br>> being a<br>> >>>> student.<br>> >>>><br>> >>>> The last thing a passive receptacle needs is the freedom to
<br>> publish<br>> >>>><br>> >> copies<br>> >><br>> >>>> or derivatives. People will assume students are just after<br>> broader<br>> >>>> educational exemptions for using the library photocopier.
<br>> >>>><br>> >>>> So 'Students for Free Culture' comes across as if it was<br>> "Couch Potatoes<br>> >>>> for<br>> >>>> Free Culture".
<br>> >>>><br>> >>>> At worst "Students can't afford much, so we should get the<br>> world's<br>> >>>><br>> >> culture<br>> >>
<br>> >>>> free of charge. Thanks."<br>> >>>><br>> >>>> The best light it can be put in is "Typically militant<br>> students having<br>> >>>>
<br>> >> the<br>> >><br>> >>>> luxury of being able to agitate against cultural oppression<br>> of the<br>> >>>><br>> >> masses"<br>
> >><br>> >>>> What's so special about a student?<br>> >>>><br>> >>>> That's what I want to know.<br>> >>>><br>> >>>> If you say 'many people showed up who were not aware that we
<br>> were a<br>> >>>> student<br>> >>>> organization', perhaps instead of concluding that you need to<br>> strengthen<br>> >>>> the<br>> >>>> student angle, you could have concluded that you should ditch
<br>> the<br>> >>>><br>> >> student<br>> >><br>> >>>> angle (even if students do constitute the key demographic<br>> most able to<br>> >>>> perceive the corruption in copyright and patent).
<br>> >>>><br>> >>>> The last thing a body that champions cultural freedom should<br>> be is<br>> >>>> exclusive.<br>> >>>><br>> >>>> If only
FreeCulture.org was now 'Everyone for Free Culture'<br>> >>>><br>> >>>> "We found people were confused when we said it was a student<br>> >>>><br>> >> organisation,
<br>> >><br>> >>>> so we've stopped saying that. We now just say it's an open and<br>> >>>><br>> >> egalitarian<br>> >><br>> >>>> organisation that welcomes everyone interested in promoting
<br>> cultural<br>> >>>> freedom"<br>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>>> Discuss mailing list<br>> >>>>
<a href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org">Discuss@freeculture.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org">Discuss@freeculture.org</a>><br>> >>>> <a href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss">
http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>> <<a href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a>><br>> >>>>
<br>> >>>><br>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>> Discuss mailing list<br>> >>> <a href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org">Discuss@freeculture.org
</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org">Discuss@freeculture.org</a>><br>> >>> <a href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
</a><br>> >>><br>> >>><br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> Discuss mailing list<br>> >> <a href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org">
Discuss@freeculture.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org">Discuss@freeculture.org</a>><br>> >> <a href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
</a><br>> <<a href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a>><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> > _______________________________________________
<br>> > Discuss mailing list<br>> > <a href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org">Discuss@freeculture.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org">Discuss@freeculture.org</a>><br>> >
<a href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>> ><br>> ><br>><br>> _______________________________________________
<br>> Discuss mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org">Discuss@freeculture.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org">Discuss@freeculture.org</a>><br>> <a href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss">
http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>><br>><br>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>
> Discuss mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org">Discuss@freeculture.org</a><br>> <a href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
</a><br>><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org">Discuss@freeculture.org</a><br><a href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss">
http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br>