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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=097101508-03102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I think MJ Ray has summed things up very well
indeed.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=097101508-03102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=097101508-03102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I don't doubt that students may well provide the greatest
resource for FC.org in terms of mobilisation and organisation (the '.org' bit),
I'm just slightly concerned that the nature of the constituents is creeping into
the mission (the 'FC' bit). Maybe that's just the way it goes. If you don't turn
up, you don't get included - in the organisation or its
mission.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=097101508-03102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=097101508-03102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Nevertheless, a strongly student aligned movement
is likely to only obtain student aligned concessions - at best. I
can easily imagine university campuses obtaining an educational exemption from
copyright infringement as long as all unauthorised copies/derivatives are
digitally signed (or have other DRM) and are not distributed outside the
university networks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=097101508-03102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=097101508-03102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>As for me having an idea to set up a new non-student
oriented movement, I don't think I had that idea. I was merely thinking
that FC.org, despite its student constituency, might reconsider whether it
really needed to reinforce this aspect in its mission title. There is a danger
that rather than explain the constituency it instead distorts the
motivation and the mission, i.e. it is not students promoting free culture for
all, but students demanding free culture for themselves - as in "Students for
Free Beer".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=097101508-03102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=097101508-03102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>However, Conor, if you'd like to set up a new movement,
that's up to you, and I have no claim to the names. I think it would be best to
avoid splintering. It did seem strange to have <A
href="http://freeculture.org">http://freeculture.org</A> and <A
href="http://www.freeculture.org.uk/">http://www.freeculture.org.uk/</A>
(see <A
href="http://freeculture.org/blog/2005/09/22/free-culture-uk/">http://freeculture.org/blog/2005/09/22/free-culture-uk/</A>).
I'm interested in any movement towards free culture (for everyone). I'd also be
interested in a movement toward copyright abolition.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=097101508-03102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=097101508-03102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>In practical terms I have far more interests than time. I
am dedicating my time toward the promotion and development of non-copyright
based revenue mechanisms in order to try and demonstrate that a voluntary
exchange of art for money </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=097101508-03102007><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>in a free market is a better thing than the
compulsory suspension of liberty (copyright) or confiscation of money
(taxation). These are the domain names I've used in this area: <A
href="http://www.digitalartauction.com">www.digitalartauction.com</A>, </FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=097101508-03102007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> <A
href="http://www.digitalproductions.co.uk,">www.digitalproductions.co.uk,</A> </FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=097101508-03102007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><A
href="http://www.quidmusic.com">www.quidmusic.com</A>, <A
href="http://www.contingencymarket.com">www.contingencymarket.com</A>
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=097101508-03102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=097101508-03102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>So, my post wasn't out of indignation that FC.org isn't
including l'il ol' me, but to express concern that FC.org may be in danger
of being unnecessarily exclusive - which may not be in FC.org's best
interests. Who knows?</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Conor Schaefer
[mailto:conor.schaefer@gmail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 3 October 2007
9:03am<BR><B>To:</B> Discussion of Free Culture in general and this
organization in particular<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [FC-discuss] FreeCulture.org
is now Students for Free Culture<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Interesting to know some background on this. Nonetheless, I think
there is a void to be filled; as I said early, diversity can help us, no? I
understand there's the issue of achieving and maintaining molarity of
interested persons, a point Christina made earlier, but I don't think we're
running that risk here. In fact, I think we can reach out to many more people
by setting up shop with a label different from FC.org/SFFC, which would
operate <I>in addition </I>to it.<BR><BR>Since it was Crosbie's idea, I'm
going to wait awhile, offering him the initiative. I googled for "artists for
free culture" and got zero hits. That's bad! I'd like to buy the domain name
<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="http://www.artistsforfreeculture.org">www.artistsforfreeculture.org</A>
and get things moving.<BR><BR>But for the time being, I say we defer to
Crosbie's initiative. What say you, good sir?<BR><BR>Conor<BR><BR>MJ Ray
wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:47034b67.%2FqKWWAzKIICMv4vW%25mjr@phonecoop.coop
type="cite"><PRE wrap="">"Fred Benenson" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:fred.benenson@gmail.com"><fred.benenson@gmail.com></A> wrote:
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">Crosbie: why not consider an organization such as iCommons which has much
broader goals and membership?
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""><!---->
I can't speak for Crosbie, but I think Crosbie is on this list mainly
for the same reason I am, because freeculture-UK was closed down in
its favour. As I understand it, iCommons has anti-commercialism
written into its foundations (thereby closing it off from artists who
need to make money from their free culture creations), uses hum-votes
to makes decisions and doesn't record its meetings.
If there must be another "open and free culture" group, then we'll get
there eventually, but there's a natural desire to avoid duplication of
overheads. It's disappointing to see so many missed opportunities and
this vital task left to telling the Crosbies of this world to go DIY,
instead of incorporating their support into your efforts.
Hope that explains,
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