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I am very pleased by this flexibility here. I think it could very well
be a saving grace of FC.org, or SFFC, or whatever we are. Alumni should
absolutely be used extensively, insofar as either party is willing to
utilize their input. <br>
<br>
That said, I would absolutely support an "artists for free culture"
organization, and would myself sign up. Crosbie, are you interested in
getting the ball rolling on that yourself, or would you need help?<br>
<br>
I think that diversity in this intellectual and philosophical ecosystem
of ours is crucial. This could mean that it's a mistake to focus more
on formal students, but it could also mean it's a huge boon to the
larger community, as it invites the formation of other chapters. I
don't see any kind of Catholic/Protestant dichotomy here, rather just
the possibility for more people to declare their favorite application
of FC principles.<br>
<br>
Once again, Crosbie: are you in?<br>
<br>
Conor<br>
<br>
Brian Rowe wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:7b43a54c0710022232t461b2aaeq1e41d701592a5b70@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">My memory of the drafting sessions was that chapter have
the power to determine chapter members. We do not define student but
left that to the chapter. See Article V section 1.1.1 "Members of any
chapter (as defined by the chapter)" for an example. See also: <br>
<h2 style="font-weight: normal;"> <font size="2"><span
class="mw-headline"> Article III: Definitions</span></font><font
size="2"><span class="mw-headline">, Section 1.1 Terms</span>, Member
of a chapter. A member of a chapter is an individual
who holds membership in a chapter of the Organization. A chapter may
determine its own procedures for membership in that chapter.</font></h2>
<p>
</p>
The by-law were not meant to micro manage chapters. Chapters will
define members differently, and I think this is a strength, allowing
flexibility for differing needs.<br>
<br>
Alumni are an interesting question. I personally think Alumni are an
amazing resource to the org. I would recommend that chapters keep
alumni list and call on them for help with projects. A national Alumni
program could help connect Free Culture friendly professionals or
scholars to work together on project. An advisory board of alumni
could help with knowledge transfer from old board members to new board
members. <br>
<br>
The bylaws are a guide not an answer most questions will be answered by
the chapters and the board will work to support the chapters. <br>
<br>
-Brian Rowe<br>
<br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 10/2/07, <b
class="gmail_sendername">
Christina Xu</b> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kxu@fas.harvard.edu">kxu@fas.harvard.edu</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">There
is the matter, of course, of the fact that there aren't necessarily a
large number of students interested in the topics at all schools. I
remember there being a lot of discussion about how best to help small
chapters, and IMHO that is to reach out to other members of the
community who are not necessarily students.
<br>
<br>
And while we're at it, how are we describing student? Or university?
Harvard has an Extension school where people who aren't necessarily
college-student-age can attend without having to be full-time students.
And what about alumni? Alumni of those extension schools? People
between college and grad school (as you were yourself until very
recently)? I'm not pro-watering-down necessarily, but it seems to me
that we're working with very vague definitions already.
<br>
<span class="sg"><br>
Christina</span>
<div><span class="e" id="q_1156428f62a51903_2"><br>
<br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 10/2/07, <b
class="gmail_sendername">Nelson Pavlosky</b> <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:nelson@freeculture.org"
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
nelson@freeculture.org</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Why
not start something called e.g. "the Boston Free Culture Coalition",<br>
and have the local Students for Free Culture chapters join that, along<br>
with every other interested person and group in Boston? That would be
<br>
one way to get everyone involved and avoid artificially limiting<br>
activity to the campus and students, while maintaining e.g. the Harvard<br>
Free Culture chapter as a separate entity specifically focused on<br>
organizing at Harvard.
<br>
<br>
It may be easier for you to organize people off-campus who are already<br>
interested in free culture than to educate and organize students on<br>
campus who are clueless. However, it is precisely when it is hard that
<br>
it is the most valuable. Reaching out to the off-campus community is<br>
nice and is certainly worth doing, but the Harvard chapter of Students<br>
for Free Culture should focus on getting Harvard students involved and
<br>
engaged with these issues, because nobody else is going to do that job<br>
for you. You are uniquely situated there to engage your peers, anyone<br>
could organize the people off campus.... work your comparative
advantage!
<br>
<br>
I'm not saying that you shouldn't work with non-students, or that you<br>
should only do on-campus events, but it seems to me like you should take<br>
care of your own campus/students and make sure you're doing a good job
<br>
there before you worry about other people and places.<br>
<br>
Peace,<br>
~Nelson~<br>
<br>
Elizabeth Stark wrote:<br>
> Again, to clarify, I'm not saying we should change our name yet
again<br>
> (once is probably enough.) I'm just saying we shouldn't discourage
<br>
> groups like ours, who have reached out to people in our surrounding<br>
> community successfully, not all of whom are students (but many of
whom<br>
> are still young.)<br>
><br>
> I'm not about to actively tell people they can't get involved and
do
<br>
> cool and interesting things with us merely because they're not<br>
> enrolled at a university. In a community like ours, academia often<br>
> mixes with many other fields, so it's also not always a bright
line as
<br>
> to what counts as a "campus" or "non-campus" action.<br>
><br>
> If other chapters want to do things differently, that's fine with
me.<br>
> We're not usually in the business of dictating what exactly each
<br>
> chapter should do anyway. I just don't want to prohibit chapters
from<br>
> reaching out to the broader community or enabling other people to
get<br>
> involved, and it sounds like we're mostly in agreement here.
<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 10/2/07, *Nelson Pavlosky* <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nelson@freeculture.org" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">nelson@freeculture.org</a><br>
> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nelson@freeculture.org" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
nelson@freeculture.org</a>>> wrote:
<br>
><br>
> I think that it makes sense to limit our focus to the schools
of the<br>
> world rather than trying to be all things to all people...
isn't<br>
> that a<br>
> big enough task? I think that organizing off-campus should
not be
<br>
> within our mission, and that we should avoid mission creep,
e.g.<br>
> watering down the term "student" to mean "everyone in the<br>
> world". If we<br>
> find ourselves doing a lot of stuff that doesn't involve
students and
<br>
> youth, I think we should spin off a separate organization so
that<br>
> we can<br>
> stay focused, and make sure that students remain in the
driver's<br>
> seat of<br>
> this organization. Older people and people not involved with
a
<br>
> school/unversity in any way can certainly get involved and help<br>
> out, so<br>
> long as we maintain the clear mission of representing and
organizing<br>
> *students* for free culture.<br>
><br>
> Let's face it, most organizations with totally open membership<br>
> will end<br>
> up being run by older people with more experience and<br>
> connections... it<br>
> doesn't make sense to kick out old experienced leaders for new
<br>
> greenhorn<br>
> students, *unless* you are trying to represent students and
give<br>
> them a<br>
> voice. I think that it's important for us to give students a<br>
> voice, to<br>
> show that they genuinely care about free culture issues by
organizing<br>
> them in a grassroots manner, by letting them speak for
themselves,<br>
> and<br>
> no other organization in the field today offers that. If we
water
<br>
> ourselves down so that we just represent a vague group of
people who<br>
> support free culture, I think that will make our organization
less<br>
> valuable... what makes us different from e.g. iCommons at that
<br>
> point? I<br>
> think Fred is right, serious off-campus organizing can
probably be<br>
> done<br>
> through iCommons or an iCommons "node". Or the EFF, or PK, or<br>
> Copynight, or any of the numerous organizations in this field
whom we
<br>
> work with and support.<br>
><br>
> However, if members of our chapters disagree on this point,
guess<br>
> what?<br>
> We're holding elections soon for the Board of
Directors. Members
<br>
> of our<br>
> chapters can run for office, can make their position on
whether we<br>
> should remain *students* for free culture part of their
platforms, and<br>
> the chapters can vote them up or down on that issue, and the
elected
<br>
> Board can make motions in the desired direction. If the
chapters want<br>
> to change our name yet again to reflect a different mission,
or change<br>
> the purposes set forth in the bylaws, they can amend the
bylaws
<br>
> through<br>
> the official amendment process, and officially change our name
for the<br>
> 3rd time. These issues will be decided through a democratic
process<br>
> that represents what our student activists want to do with
this
<br>
> organization.<br>
><br>
> And if that's not good enough, you always have the right to
fork and<br>
> start your own org.<br>
><br>
> Peace,<br>
> ~Nelson Pavlosky~<br>
> Co-founder, Students for Free Culture
<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Elizabeth Stark wrote:<br>
> > We've actually worked quite successfully in Boston *with*<br>
> students and<br>
> > in universities as well as *beyond* academia. While it
probably
<br>
> makes<br>
> > sense at this point to be primarily university
chapter-focused, I<br>
> > don't see why others can't get involved. I'd like to
define<br>
> "student"
<br>
> > as broadly as possible -- essentially, anyone with a
willingness to<br>
> > learn.<br>
> ><br>
> > -E<br>
> ><br>
> > On 10/2/07, Fred Benenson <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:fred.benenson@gmail.com" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
fred.benenson@gmail.com</a><br>
> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:fred.benenson@gmail.com" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">fred.benenson@gmail.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
> >
<br>
> >> Yes, it's a shame that some people can't find value
in campus
<br>
> organizing as<br>
> >> there's surely precedent.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Crosbie: why not consider an organization such as
iCommons<br>
> which has much<br>
> >> broader goals and membership?
<br>
> >><br>
> >> F<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> On 10/2/07, Thomas (TJ) Olsen <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:tj@tjolsen.net" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
tj@tjolsen.net</a><br>
> <mailto:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:tj@tjolsen.net"
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">tj@tjolsen.net</a>>>
wrote:<br>
> >><br>
> >>> absolutely disagree--students and academia in
this country and
<br>
> globally<br>
> >>> have a long history of great activism and
creative output
<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> tj<br>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----<br>
> >>> From: "Crosbie Fitch" < <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:crosbie@cyberspaceengineers.org"
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
crosbie@cyberspaceengineers.org
</a><br>
> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:crosbie@cyberspaceengineers.org" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">crosbie@cyberspaceengineers.org</a>>><br>
> >>> To: "'Discussion of Free Culture in general and
this organization
<br>
> >>> inparticular'" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:discuss@freeculture.org" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">discuss@freeculture.org</a><br>
> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:discuss@freeculture.org" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
discuss@freeculture.org</a>>><br>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 6:52 PM<br>
> >>> Subject: Re: [FC-discuss] FreeCulture.org is now
Students for<br>
> Free Culture<br>
> >>><br>
> >>>
<br>
> >>><br>
> >>>> I would have thought "Artists for Free
Culture" would have<br>
> been better.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> Or even "Free Citizens for Free Culture"
<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> I would suspect that the popular conception
of a student is a<br>
> passive<br>
> >>>> receptacles for knowledge, only expected to
start doing anything
<br>
> >>>> significantly productive/creative until after
they've ceased<br>
> being a<br>
> >>>> student.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> The last thing a passive receptacle needs is
the freedom to
<br>
> publish<br>
> >>>><br>
> >> copies<br>
> >><br>
> >>>> or derivatives. People will assume students
are just after<br>
> broader<br>
> >>>> educational exemptions for using the library
photocopier.
<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> So 'Students for Free Culture' comes across
as if it was<br>
> "Couch Potatoes<br>
> >>>> for<br>
> >>>> Free Culture".
<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> At worst "Students can't afford much, so we
should get the<br>
> world's<br>
> >>>><br>
> >> culture<br>
> >>
<br>
> >>>> free of charge. Thanks."<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> The best light it can be put in is "Typically
militant<br>
> students having<br>
> >>>>
<br>
> >> the<br>
> >><br>
> >>>> luxury of being able to agitate against
cultural oppression<br>
> of the<br>
> >>>><br>
> >> masses"<br>
> >><br>
> >>>> What's so special about a student?<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> That's what I want to know.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> If you say 'many people showed up who were
not aware that we
<br>
> were a<br>
> >>>> student<br>
> >>>> organization', perhaps instead of concluding
that you need to<br>
> strengthen<br>
> >>>> the<br>
> >>>> student angle, you could have concluded that
you should ditch
<br>
> the<br>
> >>>><br>
> >> student<br>
> >><br>
> >>>> angle (even if students do constitute the key
demographic<br>
> most able to<br>
> >>>> perceive the corruption in copyright and
patent).
<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> The last thing a body that champions cultural
freedom should<br>
> be is<br>
> >>>> exclusive.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> If only FreeCulture.org was now 'Everyone for
Free Culture'<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> "We found people were confused when we said
it was a student<br>
> >>>><br>
> >> organisation,
<br>
> >><br>
> >>>> so we've stopped saying that. We now just say
it's an open and<br>
> >>>><br>
> >> egalitarian<br>
> >><br>
> >>>> organisation that welcomes everyone
interested in promoting
<br>
> cultural<br>
> >>>> freedom"<br>
> >>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
> >>>> Discuss mailing list<br>
> >>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Discuss@freeculture.org</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
Discuss@freeculture.org</a>><br>
> >>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
</a>><br>
> >>>>
<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>> Discuss mailing list<br>
> >>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
Discuss@freeculture.org
</a> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Discuss@freeculture.org</a>><br>
> >>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
</a><br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >> Discuss mailing list<br>
> >> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
Discuss@freeculture.org</a> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Discuss@freeculture.org</a>><br>
> >> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
</a><br>
> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a>>
<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> > _______________________________________________
<br>
> > Discuss mailing list<br>
> > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Discuss@freeculture.org</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
Discuss@freeculture.org</a>><br>
> > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
> ><br>
> >
<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________
<br>
> Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Discuss@freeculture.org</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org" target="_blank"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
Discuss@freeculture.org</a>><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________
<br>
> Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org"
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Discuss@freeculture.org</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
</a><br>
><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Discuss mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org"
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Discuss@freeculture.org
</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</span></div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Discuss mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org">Discuss@freeculture.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank">http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Brian Rowe<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Brian@freedomforip.org">Brian@freedomforip.org</a><br>
(206) 335-8577 (Cell)
<br>
<br>
Access To Justice Technology Principles<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ATJWeb.org">www.ATJWeb.org</a><br>
<br>
Freedom for IP <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.FreedomforIP.org">www.FreedomforIP.org</a>
<pre wrap="">
<hr size="4" width="90%">
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Discuss@freeculture.org">Discuss@freeculture.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a>
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